Brief thoughts and opinions of current events.
Bullet vs. Chain saw
Published on February 22, 2005 By Stew et al In Current Events
Ok this will be short.

Recently on CNN.com there was an article about a man who was shot by police officers as he was yielding a chain saw.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/22/saw.attack.ap/index.html

My issue with this is I believe that the police used excessive force. I agree that this person had some serious issues. I also agree that a chain saw is a lethal weapon, at short range. In short the man was shot and killed. An officer was struck with the saw, the chain was obviously not engaged he had minor injuries and was treated and released.

Why was there the need to kill this man? Sure a police officer was hit by the saw but there is no reason to get that close. The police were using their authoritative power to control this person based on the knowledge that they can ultimately put this man down. There were 10 officers surrounding him. Enough man power to control the situation.

"About 10 state and local officers formed a semicircle around Henkle and ordered him to drop the chain saw, but he revved the saw and refused to put it down, Hill said.
Police said they used pepper spray, then fired when Henkle lunged at Hartzel."

Poor judgment by both parties. If a person is waving a chain saw around they are most likely not in a stable mind set. Why were the officers so close that he could lunge at them? A distance of 20 feet would have allowed for a trained officer to maneuver out of the way.

If pepper spray doesn't work is the next logical step to kill someone? Most likely not. Police officers should have enough experience handling firearms that they could aim for a leg or another non lethal part of the body.

Another observation I can make from this is the officers were getting lazy and not using their coaching skills to calm this man. Instead it looks like they jumped for a quick forceful solution that did not go as planned. The police are here to serve and protect. Being public servants of this nature they need to serve and protect the public but also the people they interact with. Just because you can kill someone doesn't mean you have to.

Sincerely,
Disturbed Stew

Comments
on Feb 22, 2005
If pepper spray doesn't work is the next logical step to kill someone? Most likely not. Police officers should have enough experience handling firearms that they could aim for a leg or another non lethal part of the body.


Does pepper spray work from over 20 feet away? As for shooting to kill, I'm not sure about it, but I remember hearing a long time ago in elementary school a cop say that when they shoot, they shoot to kill. I think liability reasons would also come into account. The cops could shoot him in the leg, and he could sue the city for crippling him, and well, that wouldn't be good.
on Feb 22, 2005
When I read your title I had a mental image of a cop with a chain saw launcher.
on Feb 22, 2005
Sure a police officer was hit by the saw but there is no reason to get that close.


so, what did you want them to do?
you first say this guy has 'issues' then say that the police didn't use their 'skills' in calming him down. Sometimes you can't reason with people, even if you're highly skilled. sometimes people, especially those disturbed enough to threaten police officers with a chain saw, have nothing left to reason with...

then you say that they should have used pepper spray. you have to be within 3 or 4 feet of the subject for pepper spray to be useful...which is probably what the officer that was struck by the chain saw was attempting to do (or did).

Messy buu is partially correct when he says that officers are trained to shoot to kill. They're trained to hit center mass, not arms and legs. trying to hit the knees of a moving subject is extremly difficult to do in the best of circumstances, let alone when you have adrenaline flowing. besides, there's a big femoral artery to worry about...hit that, and your subject's likely to bleed out and die anyway.

i'm not sure that you understand the ramifications of shooting a subject. in most police departments, the officer is immediately suspended until an independent hearing has been held, and often has to undergo psychological counselling before being allowed to return to duty. it's not a matter of 'shoot someone and go back to work'....
on Feb 23, 2005
You are correct.
Thanks for your opinions and insight. If you have to shoot you need to shoot to kill. lets say the man had a gun if you were shot in the leg you could still shoot someone. I guess a point I would like to make would be the use of "non-lethal" tools such as bean bag guns and the tasers. I assumed that with such a larger number of officers there would have been another way to resolve it.